And we are to be surprised and shocked at this? Regardless of the fact the politicians flip-flopped on the WMD/9-11/Saddam Hussien connection, there are still terrorists in this world that want to kill Americans: Republicans, Democrats, Independants, men, women, children, blacks, whites, browns, reds, yellows....all of us. That is what we should be uniting around. Not uniting around the fact that certain political leaders may lie. They all do at one point or another.

I only like Sean Penn as the Jeff Spicoli character in Fast Times At Ridgemont High. Other than that he is a fake and a bad actor.

Have an equally nice weekend.

Not uniting around the fact that certain political leaders may lie. They all do at one point or another.

yes, because lying about a consensual blow job is exactly the same as lying this country into a needless war that is killing our sons and daughters, draining our treasury, distracting us from " terrorists in this world that want to kill Americans: Republicans, Democrats, Independants, men, women, children, blacks, whites, browns, reds, yellows....all of us." and making us and the world less safe from those terrorists.

smarter monkeys please

Mark - I don't have a clue what you're saying

What he's saying is that it's ridiculous to attempt to impeach the previous president for receiving oral sex but not impeach the current president for misleading us in to an unnecessary war (among other things).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2rqww-eOIs

Mark - I don't have a clue what you're saying

as I said before, smarter monkeys please

And wiretapping.
And firing federal prosecutors for political reasons.
And perjury in the case of Alberto Gonzalez.
And an knowingly "running out the clock" in a war that is taking American lives.
And war profiteering.

But really, who's count? ;)

Thanks Benjamin for the clarification. Apparently Mark did not heed my words: most if not all politicians are liars. We all know that. Stop living in the past and trying to justify Clinton's presidency and actions. Regardless of which party you prefer, if any, the key here is to ensure our country is safe and its citizens are free to do and say what they want. Unite against terrorism, not attempt to be devisive towards each other.

Guess what children, all presidents lie, always have, always will.

Also, I really hate to burst everyone's bubble but Bush isn't the first president to start a war where soldiers get killed. You may not know this, but if you join the military, you might actually have to fight, I think it's in the contract somewhere.

Sean Penn is a fucktard, soooo animated, I thought he was going to squirt some real tears there for a second.

"Guess what children, all presidents lie, always have, always will.

Also, I really hate to burst everyone's bubble but Bush isn't the first president to start a war where soldiers get killed. You may not know this, but if you join the military, you might actually have to fight, I think it's in the contract somewhere."

We're all well aware of this but normally when a president lies it isn't to get us in to a war with a country that hasn't attacked us nor even has the means to do so and thus means the loss of several times the lives lost on 9/11.

But if you want to go with your "everybody lies" thing then I'm sure we should just let it slide and continue to roll in our own shit like pigs.

Bengie, Bengie, Bengie - does your Mother know you're on the computer? Again, and please listen this time; quit going backwards because that's not the direction we're going. The president lied and we are in a war, like it or not. The point is that the people our gallant sons and daughters are fighting, like it or not, are people that have no regard for human life. They tie bombs to their sons and daughters and have them march into town centers, police stations, markets, guard stations to kill us, them, anybody. Bid Laden, like it or not, said, " the difference between us and Americans is that Americans love life, we love death." Doesn't that make you focus on NOT worrying if Bush and his cronies lied and wonder about how we can support anti-terrorism? Bush lied. Clinton (when he may have should focused on terrorism) got a blow job in the Oval Office. Let's get those incidences behind you on focus on today and the future. The future is not proving Bush lied. the future is protecting America and you.

And the best step to protecting America would be to impeach those who distracted our military might and country's attention from Osama Bin Laden. Having someone not busy warmongering and endangering our military heroes would be greatly preferred.
Bush himself has said when asked about Bin Laden's whereabouts that "I am truly not that concerned about him." Why don't we take his word for it and find someone who is?

Benjamin - it's clear you won't read and comprehend what I wrote so I wish you luck for the future. Actually, I can't let this go without one more lesson that I hope will take: While Clinton was lying about not having sex in the White House and distracting the nation with his cheating and disgracing his wife and daughter, Bin Laden was making more plans to hurt America. Good luck again to you kid. I hope one day you wake up.

Well, since you brought up Clinton's handling of Bin Laden I must add that whenever he would attempt to focus on the man with announced air strikes or other such military activity it would be critics like yourself that would say "He's just trying to distract us from his blowjob!"

I wasn't trying to dwell on the past in any of my posting but look to the future of this country with a competent commander in chief who is willing to address the issue of Bin Laden unlike Bush.

Hey Ben,
Ever hear of the Vietnam war? You could probably stroll down to Barnes and Nobles and pick up some really good books about it.

Yes, because the Johnson Administration LIED about Communist activity. They, unlike Bush, told the American people the truth about their motivations. The war only became unpopular after the casualties escalated so.

And, if you'd read a book or two on Vietnam, you'd know that Johnson purposefully chose not to seek another term for that very reason.

Oh, the first sentence was sarcasm, in case you couldn't tell.

^that's also sarcasm.

Clinton (when he may have should focused on terrorism) got a blow job in the Oval Office.

exactly, and while he was getting a blow job bin laden flew planes into the world trade towers. Oh if only we could have had some courageous leader who would have taken the proper steps to protect us when he was told that "bin laden determined to strike in the U.S."

what color is the sky on your planet, plain spoken?

Mark - Lie down before you hurt yourself. Bin Laden didn't fly planes into the Twin towers. Go to the bookstore like anon told you. My sky is clear. Your's apparently is cloudy.

Plus, I don't know what school you and others went to. Your musings are confusing.

Okay dipshits, one more time, EVERY war this country has been involved in has been saturated with lies to the public, you know why? Because as a couple of you (Robertson, Mark) have demonstrated, the average person is too fucking retarded to understand foreign policy and the need for war.

Who cares if there aren't any WMD, Saddam needed to go and now he has so suck on it!!

And cut the indignation crap, Clinton lied his ass off on a number of fronts for 8 years and I didn't hear this level of bitching.

You're exactly right, anon, if someone does wrong in the past it makes it completely legitimate to do today. I mean, especially considering this was this nation's FIRST preemptive war. Normally, you'd find those lies to be one's to keep up morale or just keep the country committed. Normally, those lies aren't to dupe the American people in to war from the very start and have all of their motives for invading turn up to be wrong. If Saddam needing to be killed was truly the only real goal of the administration then why didn't they just have an assassination attempt on him like we do with even lesser threats, like Hugo Chávez.

Who cares if there aren't any WMD, Saddam needed to go and now he has so suck on it!!

so when do you ship off to Iraq he-man??? put your money where your mouth is, or is Saddam needing to go only a good thing if someone else does the dying to make it happen? A**shole.

Mark and Benji,
I bet you two can't wait for Jr. High to start again, why don't you fill up the rest of your summer break by reading a few history books.

"First pre-emptive War" Now that's funny shit!

Anon, I'd rather you supply actual facts and arguments for your position. I see no reason for you to make personal attacks like a little child as I haven't done it to you.

Now what fun would that be, what is it specifically that you want to know?

Considering how in past mass invasions, anything worthy of being called a war since we haven't officially declared since World War 2, there was already a conflict being waged prior to our intervention and that this was for the sake of the country of the Koreans, Vietnamese or Kuwaitis, how is the Iraq war not our first preemptive war, meaning we invaded out of fear of being attacked by Saddam?

I like how you tried to shore up your original claim with all the caveats, anyway, here's a couple:
Spanish American
Mexican American

There are several others that just barely miss the narrow definition of what you consider to be preemptive.

The Spanish-American war was brought on by the sinking of the USS Maine, supposedly by the Spanish.

The Mexican-American war began after 11 U.S. soldiers were killed on our side of the Rio Grande, though they had been provoked of sorts.

Exaggerations and propaganda on the part of the United States, yes. Wars waged for imperialist conquest, yes. Preemptive, no.

Well, so long as you totally own the definition of pre-emptive, then I guess you will always be right.

So exaggerations and propaganda in your mind don't equal lies? Very interesting.

I fucking hate people like you, go chase your tail some more little doggie.

No wonder you love Clinton so much.

Ba bye

Anon, I apologize if I have someway offended you or if you ever felt that I was attacking you. I'll admit, we got a little too far from our original debate but I never wanted it to go from a reasonable discussion to petty insults. I certainly hope that we remain civil in future comment threads of ungodly lengths.

Benjamin - you started it off wrong by the phrase "smarter monkeys please" to those trying to assist you.

I never said that phrase, that was Mark.

Oops, you're right. My bad and my apologies.