I mentioned this attitude below about DeLay - however, Wonk thought me crazy. Evidently the new book "American Theocracy", countless writers and journalists (like the one above) and myself, are all crazy in Wonks eyes.

People, we are moving to a Christian Theocracy if we are not already there (to a degree). All we can do is continue to expose these Christian Nazi's, fight them and work to have quality people (Republican, Democrat and Independent) elected in November that leave the religion at the church door.

The sky is not falling chicken little.

And no I dont think your crazy (well maybe a little). For the most part I just think your an asshole with an inflated sense of self worth.

Takes one to know one Wonk - KISS KISS

A thought, PD. That little white line between messages seems to be displaced. Shouldn't the line be between messages, including the author's name? Would make it easier to figure out who wrote what, doncha think?

"But those who view religion as something we are obligated to enlist others into are deeply bothered by secular freedoms, especially the ones which are abused."

So, Baptists. Yeah.

Jesus B. Ochoa...do you have any idea how fucking hard it is to design and create these templates??? It's truly rocket science, unless you're on blogger or something. haha

GiM - well, the first step is to stop calling them Christians. They aren't.

To the fine fellow who compares christians to nazi's u are very mistaken. For starters unlike the nazi's who murdered millions. Christians are Pro life they don't believe in killing their young unborn children! Unlike nazi's they believe that everyone has rights and christians are a big part of why we are no longer in England, and why we no longer have Slavery and why Women can vote and the list goes on.....

And you can leave religion at the door but u cant leave your beliefs!
I believe quite differently than u but if we were both in congress should I expect u to leave your anti-christian vews at the door? The answer is no because u can't. You can't anymore than I could. It's not about a religion it's about what u and I both believe is best for our country. I believe abortion is murder, not because im religious but because i value human life. If it is against the law to kill a baby that is born 6 months premature while it is in a hospital crib, why can we kill a baby that is at the same developmental stage in it's mothers whom? But you may believe in a mothers choice. ok what about the fathers choice! Can u possibly deny his right to have his child? I believe this will soon become a very hot topic in our courts! How can fathers not have equal rights? They have equal rights after the child is born do they not?

But anyway as u see we may believe differently,,,, but am i oppressing u if i believe that abortion is wrong? The answer is no. What if the supreme courts over turn the womens right to have an abortion are u being oppressed not any more than when I get pulled over for driving 75 in a 45 and get a ticket. We elect people who make laws and appoint judges to make the rules we have to live by. I don't agree with all of them and I wish that we had some laws on the books that are not there but thats how our gov. is set up, we decide as a whole, how we will live. I don't argee with some laws and neither will you but we Both have the right to believe what we want and exspress that right, but we don't have the right to be heard!!! U don't have to like or listen to what I say. and I don't have to listen to your side if I don't like but How would we pass the time!!!! LOL I Very much appriciate the convo.

Justin in SC

Zzzzzzz. Wake me when we hear from a religionist who believes in grammar.

A fine indictment of the SC school system.

Not all human life is valuable - there are those stupid people.

If we illegalize abortion, can we at least sterilize them?

Prior to Roe, there were 1.3 million abortions per year. After Roe, there were 1.3 million abortions per year. The legal status of abortion has never actually affected the number of abortions.

Want to do something about abortion? Why not fund CHIP, WIC, Medicaid, TANF? If you want to force a teen mother to continue her pregnancy, you'd damn well better be prepared to pay for it. (I mean, you won't support a living wage for them...)

Better yet, why not put sex-ed back in our schools, so teens have the appropriate information to not get pregnant in the first place.

We've seen the pro-lifers in Texas, Rick Perry, Arlene Wohlgemuth. She wrote HB 2292 that kicked 174,000 Texas children off health insurance and took away vision, dental, and HOSPICE from those very poorest children that remained on CHIP. That probably didn't encourage people to have kids.

There is another agenda at work here, and it's not remotely Christian. Jesus had a whole lot to say about love thy neighbor, and help the poor, not so much about repeal thine capital gains tax. (though he did support the income tax - Luke 12:48)

I want to reduce the numbers of abortions, but making it illegal isn't the way to do that. Why violate our constitution when we could address the issue directly - by funding the programs that actually help expecting mothers.

The republicans have held power is some form or another since Reagan (and bitched and moaned the whole time), yet abortion is still legal. By making it illegal, it's no longer an issue - it still happens, but it's no longer an issue. It would hide it, we could pretend it didn't happen, but it would. It's kind of like when Bush made burger-flipping a "manufacturing" job - there were still job losses, we just hid them so we could pretend they didn't happen.

Those are not my Christian values. I'd much rather help than condemn. I'd much rather fix the problem, I don't like hiding things.

PS: I was educated in Lampasas, Texas (not middle of nowhere, but same zip code) and I can still speach purty good :)

Good post Casey. Even though I am not "Christian", I do have respect for persons like yourself and others that do truly follow your Christ’s path of love, assistance and living-like-you-preach.

My point about the far right wing Republicans is that they want to condemn, control and certainly (in general) do not live like they preach. In their zeal to show how wonderfully Christian they are, they are actually turning people off of the very things they are trying to promote.

and i was edumucated n midland and i thank i 2 speek prity good to.. :)

I'm voting for Casey whenever he decides to run. Let us know, buddy!

I am Christian and I don't get where Justin is coming from. I guess he just likes to tell others what to do.

Fuck him as his philosophy seems to be that you CAN legislate morality. What Justin doesn't understand is that what he sees as murder others, legitimately, see as a health care issue. The difference between the two is that no one is forcing Justin to do anything, while Justin is perfectly content to force Americans into with living as he wants.

Justin, your nothing more than a bossy, know-it-all twerp.

I think I saw a post in Justin-speak on my teen's Myspace page. Dude, maybe you should save the text messaging for the phone if you want to be taken seriously. U got it?

My mother says there is nothing worse than an unwanted child. I defer to them with wombs to decide whether or not there should be legal abortion. But then, we allow draft dodgers to command our military....its all so confusing.

Hey, I was edumacated in SC(Tx) too!

Someone should have coat-hangered Justin's post...

original TREY,

The humorous aspect to your comment above is that you don't even realize your own hypocracy.

Really? How, exactly, am I being hypocritical? This I can't wait to hear, especially from a professed libertarian!

Hey guys I heard alot of screw justin but no debate on any of my thoughts! Im not trying to tell people how to live! I guess u think that we should not have fought in WWII because we don't want to force our idea's on Japan or Germany! You don't understand that abortion is'nt a womens issue any more than child support is a mans issue! It's about the child!
If my wife and I were to become (with child) then who does the child belong to? Does it belong to my wife only, until birth? Are you saying that I have no rights? Once the child is born however, I have to take care of this child or I can be sent to prison for neglect! (example) My wife decides to beat our child with a bat everyday but I say : It's not my place to stop her because thats her child not mine! This sounds nuts and I would go to jail for allowing my wife to abuse my child. So why would it be different before my child is born? Someone explain this to me! Or you just can act like five year olds and call me names and not debate me!

THIS WAS UNANSWERED IN MY FIRST COMMENT
I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR ONE

If it is against the law to kill a baby that is born 6 months premature while it is in a hospital crib, why can we kill a baby that is at the same developmental stage in it's mothers whom? The baby is the same age.

THERE WAS NO RESPONCE TO THIS EITHER.
Unlike nazi's they (CHRISTIANS) believe that everyone has rights and christians are a big part of why we are no longer in England, and why we no longer have Slavery and why Women can vote and the list goes on.....

I CAN'T WAIT TO HEAR YOUR WISE RESPONCE

MUCH LOVE TO YOU ALL...
Im from texas!

Justin, baby, we disagree with you on the fundamental issue. Further, as long as women are the only ones capable of getting pregnant, it's a health care issue for them and their decision, not yours.

We understand your agrument, we just disagree with it.

Once there is a birth the rules change.

What do you want me to tell you? Life's not fair? Tough titty toenails?

JUSTIN, honey. I promise you the Southern Bible-bangers had nothing whatso-FRICKIN-ever to do with women¡¦s suffrage. So get off your high horse, from one Deep-South Southerner to another, and stick to what you know.

Anybody else wondering why Justin felt the need to put (with child) in (parenthesis)? Sounds like he¡¦s (whispering.)

It doesn¡¦t sound to me, Justin, like you¡¦re worried about the kid at all, buddy. Sounds like you¡¦re worried about yourself - ¡§Are you saying I have no rights?¡¨

Let me ask you this. What if you BOTH wanted to (terminate the pregnancy)? Do those rights then transfer to the child? You lifers always love to bring about the fathers¡¦ rights until you run into fathers who would agree that abortion is the best way to go in their particular case. Then it¡¦s not really their decision, either, is it? At that point, it goes to God, I guess.

What about the child¡¦s right not to be brought into an abusive, neglectful, impoverished home that has no support from the government ¡V or better yet, into the wasteland known as the foster care/adoption system, languishing away while all the adoptive parents get their kids from Guatemala because it¡¦s cheaper and less of a pain in the ass??

Original Trey, speak for yourself. I don¡¦t understand shit about his argument! ƒº

Missing the point again.

It doesn't matter whether or not you are pro-life or pro-choice, the legal status of abortion has never affected the actual number of abortions.

It has nothing to do with rights (though that is how the issue has come down to us) of the mother/father/child/uncle twice removed. It has to do with actually doing something about abortion.

As a society, we need to first provide the relevant information (and perhaps supplies) so that pregnant women intended to be that way.

Secondly, we need to make sure that a mother knows her child is guaranteed healthcare through CHIP, that the mother has access to WIC and TANF, and that once that child is born, HeadStart will be available so she can work. She needs to know that even further on down the road, that her child is going to attend a public school that is second to none (and certainly not Mississippi), because, after all, every parent wants nothing more for their children than for them to do better than they did.

Third we need to give the mother the confidence in the society into which she will be bringing a child. We need to raise the minimum wage to lift people out of poverty, and we need to revitalize our economy. Abortions went down under Clinton, not because of anything real, but because it was a positive, peaceful, prosperous era. Republicans have not shown themselves to be advocates of peace, prosperity, or optimism for that matter.

Being truly pro-life will prove a costly venture... but it will be well worth it.

PS: Keep in mind the questions "Can I have an abortion," and "should I have an abortion," are worlds apart.