Grades are a poor indicator of success because they are assigned in a very subjective manner. Standardized tests assure that kids all over the state are held to the same standards...and that is a kindness to them, not a hinderance.

Bad idea. Grades are inflated, mostly, and why would you want to wait for a kid to graduate from high school before he finds out he doesn't really read that well? Someone's trying to get attention.

Then I must have gone to school in a fantasy world where teachers taught us shit and if we didn't learn we failed. Weird, how that worked out. The only subjective part was exactly what day the dumbass kid that failed had to report back to the grade below us. I'm still not convinced on standardized tests. Sorry. But, then again, I'm no education egghead. I'm just a vice president that went to public schools and a state university.

OH...and not finding out a kid can't read well until he graduates? Y'all I'm sorry but that's not the job of a stupid standardized test. Some third grade teacher should have figured that out. If students are getting to, I'll be generous, the third grade and cannot read well? That's a teacher problem, not a testing problem.

Nice. You admit you don't know anything about the subject, but hey that doesn't stop you from having a very firm opinion! Those with some real knowledge on the subject, on the other hand, are "eggheads."

You admit you don't know anything about the subject, but hey that doesn't stop you from having a very firm opinion!

Welcome to American politics and their voters!! (Oh, and their politicians!)

I don't really have a problem with TAKS, other than if you focus on testing rather than instruction you're going to get the same fucked up results you always get. GIGO, you know.

There are a few very simple things you can do to dramatically improve education in this state. Unfortunately, those things are expensive in terms of the upfront investment required. Still it's cheap when considering the benefits to be reaped from a better educated populace.

One other thing... how much time do the people who create the test actually spend with educators/curric people in the districts? From the looks of things, not much.

PD, your the vice president? :-0

PD, I didn't say "can't read." I said can't "really read that well." That would apply to lots of kids with high school diplomas these days, even in an age of TAKS. And reading is just one example. Basic math would be a better one. The kids who are helped the most by standardized testing are the ones who are falling behind. The standards aren't always the same from one district to another. What's the point of keeping that a secret until someone reaches adulthood?

newswatching, I hear what you are saying. I'm just opposed to standardized testing as THE end all be all measurement. I still contend that a teacher in the fourth/fifth grade ought to be able to determine if you can't read well.

I'm almost tempted to jump in here.
But all I will say is that PD is welcome to his opinion.
Whether it's well informed or not... Kiss kiss, PD.

Aw, come on. Jump in. Y'all so rarely disagree with me, it's fun.

As a teacher of five years, I know that a student who who is trained in nothing but test procedures and guesses at standardized tests can still get an ok grade and be promoted, It's kind of like like knowing to put the hammer with the nail, but not knowing how to hang a picture. Give them the test, but it needs to be like when we were kids, where the kids find out their taking the test on the same day their taking it. This whole "teaching to the test" crap as well as making teachers' livelihoods dependent on test scores is total nonsense. Not to mention that students' grades should be taken into account if we have hired qualified teachers. It Texas has failed at that, then perhaps the administrators should have THEIR asses kicked!

How's that for informed opinion?

To clarify -- Bell never actually wanted to scrap them all together (the Statesman wrote a misleading headline). He just wanted to end them as the sole measurement of TAKS testing. He still believes they may be used for school district evaluation and such.

You tell them, Yucca! Teacher pay raises and school accredibility are tied to that TAKS test. It's a totally fucked up situation. Taking the weight OFF of the standardized test forces the state to spend money for quality schools, materials and teachers!

Teachers are the whiniest constituency in the state of Texas.

And if your a staffer you know its true...

Damn people that take an active interest in politics. Why don't they just shut up and cry for fewer taxes like the rest of those mindless "voters" out there?

I'm going to take a shot at this from a different angle. First, I went to school way before these standardized tests became all the rage. I do have fuzzy memories of occasionaly filling in little circles on an answer sheet with a Number Two pencil, but we always told that these would affect us in any way. As gullible children, we accepted that, although I now suspect that they may have been lying to us.

I have been told that nowadays teachers spend their time not only "teaching the test", but also teaching how to take the test. The fact that so many kids still manage to fail the TAKS makes me think that there are a lot of dumb kids out there. Dumb kids are not going to learn very much, whether they're being taught test-taking strategy or something slightly more useful. I accept that the best schools can do is warehouse them for a dozen or so years until they're old enough to take meaningless, soul-destroying jobs, hook up with other dumb adults and produce the next generation of stupid people. And perhaps discourage them from voting.

I'm more concerned about the kids who actually can learn a few things, skeptical thinking hopefully among them. Based on what little I know (and all I know is what I read on the blogs) I worry that classrooms have become so focused on preparing for the TAKS that, for example, the day my 6th grade Englich teacher brought in her Tom Lehrer records would never happen under this scholastic regime. "We Will All Go Together When We Go" The world is a scary place, but that doesn't mean you can't laugh at it once in a while. A good lesson to impart in Third Period. We can always get back to pluralization tomorrow.

Okay, look, this is nothing personal, Yucca, but if you're going to be teaching and holding "informed opinion" over our heads about testing and standards, could you do something with this: "where the kids find out their taking the test on the same day their taking it." Thanks a million.

NW - Music teachers don't have to know how to spell. I happen to know this certain commentor graduated cum laude. Unless Yucca isn't who I think she is.

love, bluebonnet

Just a little post script here: I agree that "teaching to the test" is a problem and it shouldn't be the sole criterion for anything. But running away from standardized testing completely is not the answer. Thanks to whoever clarified Bell's position (not that I'm voting for him anyway, but still).

TAKS, as it is set up, I firmly believe, is part of the religious right's NCLB "let's make the public schools and teachers look like failures so everyone will want to vote for vouchers-- so GWB's cronies can make even more zillions --plan." It's already happening with the "intervention" companies which have profited some of his friends from Texas very nicely.
I challenge those of you who are clueless about the topic to go to the TEA website and look at some of the released tests. The 3rd grade math test, especially, is a great example of why we have to teach the test. It's the stupid format, mainly.
If the top dogs really wanted to see what teachers are accomplishing, they would compare my class's scores from the end of last year to the end of this year. Instead, they measure annual yearly progress on last year's class vs. this year's class. Does this make any sense to anyone? No. That's the point. There are over 30 ways a school can be punished for test scores, and only 1 way to be successful. Now tell me that's not a set-up.