What transpired yesterday was a complete and utter implosion. The unraveling of HB 2 followed by HB 3 was unbelievable.

This reader is in a central African war zone at the moment (no law or order, UN black helicopters everywhere, it's really something), but the total absence of governmental authority nonwithstanding, I bet someone here could come up with a cogent school finance plan. Let us know.

Okay, I have a dumb question. Why do we have this burning need to provide property tax relief? I pay property taxes and they aren't killing me or anything. If the money is improving our schools, I don't mind paying them. Taking a property tax cut when the schools have no money seems pretty dumb to me. Am I missing something?

Step 1: Bring back the Perfect Meal Plan and install Don't Mess w/ Pink as Speaker.

Okay, I have a dumb question. Why do we have this burning need to provide property tax relief?

Because there's a war going on, silly. 9/11 changed everything. And besides, Republicans are genetically compelled to cut taxes, particularly during wartime. This is their only mission as a governing majority.

Where have you been, central Africa?

yes, property taxes are a problem. I have a $110K house in houston area and my tax bill is $3800. Half of that is school tax. Many of us *are* the middle class homeowner struggling to hold on. To be fair, it's not just school taxes that need reformation - all these "special taxing districts" like MUDS and drainage need to get cut back or eliminated too. Meanwhile a majority of texas businesses aren't even paying a tax on profits, and many get decade long exemptions on property taxes at the county level. IMO there should be a percentage rule, e.g. no more that 40% of funding should come from property taxes, and the remaining 60% needs to come from business tax. And somebody needs to stand up and tell the businesses that if they don't like it, and want to relocate, then they can and take their business with them b/c they won't be allowed back in to texas markets.

I think the business tax problem is a big one. The problem is that the businesses are all owned by the people in the Texas Legislature, or their buddies. I doubt we'll see any state revenue coming from businesses while Texas is a red state. It could at least offset the losses from property tax relief, if it's not going to be used for school funding. If you give one sector of society a big break, everyone else has to pick up the slack. It's really very simple.

I hate to tell you this, but we never saw it when we were a blue state. Politicians are just crummy people these days. One day they'll figure out that to actually run a state, it takes money and that money has to come from somewhere...right now, I think money just sort of appears in the bank accounts of the middle class.

Texas has been a conservative state since before conservatives were mainly Republicans. Texas also insists on a part time legislative branch. It takes a whole bunch of momentum to do the big issues. I don't see the voters clamoring for a year round, liberal legislature.

I used to think a continuously serving legislature was an imperative to sane government. That was when I studied the theory of government. Dealing with the reality of government in Texas over the years has convinced me of the wisdom of biennial sessions. (Even though under Perry they have been in session for what seems like forever, it is still better than having them there ALL THE TIME.)

Year-round sessions? Just shoot me now.

What was most interesting yesterday was not that Hochberg's amendment was adopted, but that afterwards Craddick could not pull it all back together again. Casteel immediately got up there and spanked Branch on the next amendment, then they put on the "Craddick stall" to give him time to twist arms. In the past, we all know this has worked, but after an hour with the next amendment Homer broke it off in them again, showing that Craddick had lost total control over the policy voting. That has not happened since Craddick became Speaker. Certainly he will regain control, but it was a first step.

Also, the vote on the motion to call the previous question was clearly a vote to back the Speaker - Branch was even telling R's that on the floor at the time - and 80 voted against Craddick.

year round sessions - that would never fly.

I am amazed how many people dont know the Leg. only meets every other Spring. On top of that, they think the members all make 100,000+

Bottom line is the property tax is not fair. Its based on value. A guy with a 10,000 square foot ranch home might be paying the same tax as someone in Hyde Park. Moreover, there is way too much overhead and the school districts have the option to increase the rate, which many have already gone over their max, to what they need for funds.

Income tax with property tax relief. The average middle class Texan saves money.

Actually, heres a bold idea. Granted we are in Texas and I am not so sure how this will fly, but why don't we stop paying high school football coaches 100,000 and the assistants 60,000+

They say that they deserve it cause they teach classes too. If you have ever had a coach as a teacher you know this is a joke.

When I was a Junior in high school, my district passed a 65 million dollar bond for an athletic complex. I guess it would have hurt for any of that to go to educational equipment or teacher pay raises. No, sports are to important.

I say we all get hochberg to file his amendment as a bill... problem solved, and it might actually have the votes to pass.

Our problem isn't how long or short the sessions are, it's all the paid interests IN the Dome. And the fact that no one (NO ONE AT ALL) wants to actually try and do something that would help because if a member of the lege tries to change anything too much they won't get the votess in two years. I'm all for watching your back and trying to get re-elected, but grow some bals and do something for the good of Texas. IF YOUR IN THE LEGE RIGHT NOW ... STEP UP.

Hochberg's amendment (or language therein) can't be considered again this special session. It was already voted down once.

so much to talk about!

a progressive income tax and property tax relief go hand in hand. you can eliminate individual property taxes altogether with an income tax. we'd all get a break from federal taxes (deducting state income tax) and property owners can still get their "extra" break from federal taxes (deducting mortgage interest). you'll have more money for education (state could fund 100%) and still offer local enrichment by levying property taxes against business (and even this could be a much, much lower percentage than current taxes).

public education is not a partisan issue. that's why the "leadership" is unable to twist enough arms. it's the one issue that demands a vote for your constituents. school board members are just parents and they go to church or PTA and tell all their friends what's really going on in Austin. you can't spin effectively against that. you have to own up to your vote.

this is really about the haves and the have-nots. rural folks are getting screwed by property-rich districts just as much as folks down in the valley. but, honestly, the property-rich districts get screwed, too. there's nothing wrong with Highland Park feeling entitled to the very best education it can afford. the problem is when kids in Brownsville don't have any books and can't understand a word their teacher is saying at the same time the kids in Highland Park offer synchronized swimming as an elective. the income tax is the only equitable remedy.

as for the year-round lege, check out California. when you have "professional" legislators operating in a complete vacuum, bad things happen. what we really need is campaign finance reform to keep members honest. if you don't need to kissup to the lobby or the PACs running the party, you can vote for the folks back home and feel confident you can't be threatened out of office.

When talking about the stalled school finance legislation, Craddick said, "We're open to ideas." This may be the biggest lie he's told all year.

Hochberg's amendment has been filed as a bill each session, but the public education committee won't consider it. The only chance of that coming back this session is if the Senate passes a pub ed bill, and hochberg puts his amendment on it. And considering how many times they put the SBC bill through in the regular session, I don't think that the "similar language" rule apply, especially b/c the Chair ruled yesterday that only language that was nearly identical would be ruled "similar language".

anybody else find it funny that the house website still has the "roadmap to results" link up?!! i'm sure there's a gifted (and bored) PD reader out there who could come up with a pdf example of what the roadmap they're currently following looks like . . .

Hochberg's amendment CAN be considered again this session. The constitutional rule is very easy to get around by simply changing a few provisions in any legislation.

R's have started to spin this mis-information about Hochberg's amendment not being eligible now, but that is pure BS. What is NOT eligible again is "H.B.2 as amended" as it was voted on 2d reading; Hochberg's amendment was not H.B.2 as amended, as H.B.2 had a bunch of other stuff in it.

Mike, I hope you are right about what happened yesterday. But I was actually thinking it was just as likely that Craddick orchestrated all that - maybe even including not fighting against the Hochberg amendment - so the "Perry" plan would go down in flames. That seems to be how they are spinning it right now. And now they can come back with the original House plan (1 cent sales tax) and say that is the only plan that will pass the House. Sorry, we TRIED SO HARD to pass yours, but it just won't work. Just couldn't do it. The members revolted. (They certainly are revolting.) Too machiavellian?

Certainly they orchestrated the defeat of "the Gov's tax bill". That was in the works since last Friday, when it was understood among members that the play would be HB3 (Gov's version) would go down with Chisum voting against it, then Chisum would make the motion to reconsider, amend it with something closer to the "option/choice" tax plan that Craddick wants, and then send it out to the Senate.

The HB2 fiasco was not planned though (Craddick told Keel he had the votes to move the previous question), and the press seems to appreciate that the final vote on HB2 was not a rejection of Hochberg's plan.

Thanks for the insight. Well then! A little fun was had. It certainly was fun watching it.

Craddick doesn't need a bill, Dewhurst, who knows, and Perry is ok as long as he doesn't get the blame. As it stands, Perry can actually blame House Democrats? Think about it. Can he? Keep in mind, I'm not talking about inside the Dome, I'm talking about out on the stump.

In my estimation, Perry is sitting pretty right now. He might get some flak for a lack of leadership, but in his own party I think he can skate. Here's how it goes: "I said I'd hold their feet to the fire by calling them back, and I did that. Twice. I even provided a plan to try to spur debate, even though as Gov, that's not MY job, it's THEIRS. Yada, yada, yada. Blah, blah, blah." He may not even point to party affiliation, because he can take a swipe at Craddick that way. Which makes me think the House might indeed try again. Sigh.

Yeah, I just don't see Carole making this work for her. She'll try, very vocally, but I don't see it.

Perry's going to be poking Strayhorn with a stick to come out with a school finance plan if she criticizes him on this. He probably will anyway. There is no plan that will help, either R's will hate it or the D's she needs to vote in her primary, or most likely both. I guess that in the past twelve years people have forgotten that a real school finance fight makes redistricting look civil. All we seen so far is half hearted posturing. Wait till the Supremes really threaten to close the schools then it will get real ugly.

Mike and JSG seem to be the only ones with some intelligent and well thought out comments. And as far as you all thinking that every legislator votes the way some lobbyist wants him to- you are obviously out of touch with the legislature. The reason why everything is in such dismay, is because, of those legislators that actually do want to vote in the best interests of their districts and constiuents.

Yeah, well, we love you too, crazy. Out of curiosity, I re-read the comments and there are only 2 I counted, out of the what? 20-odd, that even mention lobby (read, business) influence. Most comments on this and other threads were not arguing specific lobby influence. Stupidity, maybe, lack of guts or creativity, maybe. A complete disregard of the less affluent, maybe ...

But since you brought it up, lets go there. You are arguing the members -- and I'm thinking House members, since that is what we've been discussing -- vote their districts, and not the agenda of the Speaker, oh, excuse me, I mean the TAB/TRMPAC? Sure, sweetie. And if you close your eyes and click your heels...

Please. Get real.

Special interests, etc., yes, of course those are the problems, but they've always been problems. What's underlying everything (and, what, I would argue, is a more recent development, even in our low-tax, low-service state) is the idea that not all Texas children deserve a quality education. Shapleigh's excellent presentation on school finance starts with that premise, and if you agree that it's only fair to give everyone a chance, then you all but have to find a way to deal with restructuring the way we fund our schools. Problem is, a lot of our legislators (and even more of our special interests) don't actually believe that every child in this state deserves the chance have a chance. That's sad and cynical, but I'm afraid it's true. When you're more worried about your own property taxes than the fate of a child who will never have the chance to educate him or herself out of poverty, AND you run for election claiming to be the moral, Christian candidate, well, then you've got a much more serious problem than 1.50 per 1000 dollars of assessed property value.

The people who want to kill not only public education, but also government altogether really ought to come visit central Africa - there's no government here, and it's anything but a free-market paradise. Whoever has the biggest and best guns at any given moment in any given place rules, and if you can't pay for your own protection, you're screwed (in more ways than one - rape is one of the preferred weapons of the gangs of armed bandits who roam the forests here). There's minimal healthcare, the HIV/AIDS infection rate is climbing, the roads aren't paved, and there are no schools at all. You can't say this is due to a lack of international investment, because the place is chock-full of minerals andm therefore, Western capital. Pursuit of the common good is virtually unheard of, and it's not a nice way to live. It shouldn't require killing a public school system to recognize that Texas has an interest in having an educated, healthy workforce - even if it costs us a little bit of money.

Well put, texas. Be careful out there.

Edmonton dominated the Carolina Hurricanes on Saturday night and the 4-0 margin in Game 6 makes it hard to imagine the Oilers not hoisting hockey's Holy Grail above their heads in less than 48 hours. And it would not come as any shock to see defenseman Chris Pronger, who had another 31-minute night, take the honors for the Conn Smythe Trophy as the playoff MVP.